x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  March 29, 2024, 5:44 am
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 236
Total: 236
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: My Account
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: My Account
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: My Account
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: My Account
21: Community Forums
22: My Account
23: My Account
24: My Account
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: My Account
29: Photo Gallery
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: My Account
35: My Account
36: My Account
37: Photo Gallery
38: My Account
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: My Account
44: My Account
45: Community Forums
46: My Account
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Statistics
55: My Account
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Statistics
67: My Account
68: My Account
69: Community Forums
70: Statistics
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Statistics
76: My Account
77: Community Forums
78: Statistics
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: My Account
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: My Account
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Statistics
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: My Account
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: My Account
111: My Account
112: Community Forums
113: My Account
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: My Account
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: My Account
127: Photo Gallery
128: My Account
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: My Account
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: My Account
138: My Account
139: Community Forums
140: My Account
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: My Account
144: Stories Archive
145: Community Forums
146: My Account
147: My Account
148: Statistics
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: My Account
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: My Account
159: My Account
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Statistics
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: My Account
168: My Account
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: My Account
173: Community Forums
174: Statistics
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: My Account
178: My Account
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: My Account
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Statistics
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: My Account
195: Community Forums
196: Statistics
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: My Account
204: Statistics
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: My Account
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: My Account
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: My Account
235: Community Forums
236: My Account

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 16:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 09:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 15:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 13:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 13:53:38

State of the Family Record & Other State Records
Last post by debbiemfit in Northern Italy on Jan 02, 2018 at 23:14:28

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Question about records

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Question about records
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Question about records Reply with quote

Other information that I have indicates that my grandmother and her brother were born in 1898 and 1895 respectively; however these to birth docs seem to indicate otherwise. Any thoughts regarding this?
Calogero Monte
img387.imageshack.us/i...190ym0.jpg

Giuseppa Monte
img107.imageshack.us/i...rthpe3.jpg

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Well Tom - the first birth document was registered on 15th November 1898 at 10.40 (?)am

But at the end of the registration I am certain the Ufficiale dello Stato Civile (Registrar) has written:

"....was born a child of the male sex that they (witnesses) presented, and who gives the name of Calogero and who I recognise (acknowledge) was without life."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The second document for Giuseppa:
Birth registered 1898 20th March at 10.30am

Born (it looks like)
at 10.05am on the 16th of the same month.

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Another trip to my local FHC is in order. I am assuming that a death would have been recorded in the same year for the child in question. What is confusing to me is that my grandmother's brother Calogero was supposedly born in 1895 and did emigrate to America along with my grandmother and others in her family. I have found draft registration records for Calogero where he consistently gives his birth in the year 1895.

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Another question. This just received this mail from Italy. Does this mean that Grazia Pizzo had a twin sister, Sebastiana? Or am I completely off base?

img383.imageshack.us/i...191xw9.jpg

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
ricbru
Researcher
Researcher


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 427
Location: TRENTO - ITALIA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

The complete name is Grazia Sebastiana PIZZO
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo

_________________
Riccardo





HELP ME to find the ship manifest of 1902 to USA, about my GGFather Francesco Paolo BRUNO from Trapani (1860/1938)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
tjbrn
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 487
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Thanks, it does.

_________________
Tom

Scribbling
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Trascrizione

Calogero Monti
img387.imageshack.us/i...190ym0.jpg

L'anno 1898, addì 15 di Novembre a ore a.m. 10 e minuti 40 nella casa Comunale. Avanti di me Vaschiera Giuseppe Segretario Comunale, delegato del Sindaco [...] Ufficiale di Stato Civile del Comune di S. Giuseppe Jato è comparso Monti Salvatore di anni 30 xxx, domiciliato in questo Comune, il quale mi ha dichiarato che alle ore 1,30 a.m. del dì 13 corrente nella casa posta in xxx da Licata Anna di anni 30 sua legittima moglie seco lui convivente è nato un bambino di sesso mascolino che mi si presenta, e a cui dà il nome di Calogero e che io riconosco essere senza vita.
A quanto sopra...
Back to top
View user's profile
BillieDeKid
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

This might help Tom. Manifest for Giuseppa and her brothers, sisters etc. She is age 9 in 1907 and the brother you're looking for was 11. So try looking in 1896 for his birth record.
www.ellisisland.org/EI...&line=0016

Hope this helps.

_________________
Elizabeth
Brognaturo On Line
Brognaturo Civil Records
Mangiardi, Tedeschi/Tedesco, Zangari, Coda, DeFrancesco, Ierulli, Bava, Daniele, Valente
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

tjbrn wrote:
... I am assuming that a death would have been recorded in the same year for the child in question.

It's not sure. The child was considered born already "dead" and maybe no one record could exist.
Luca

BillieDeKid wrote:
... the brother you're looking for was 11. So try looking in 1896 for his birth record.

Very strange. If a Calogero still existed in 1896 it's almost impossible that another brother (also if born dead) was called (in 1898) Calogero too.

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
BillieDeKid
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Hi Luca

Yes I agree. I looked at the ages of the parents for Calogero (image Tom posted) father 35 mother 33 in 1898. For Giuseppa (image Tom posted) father 30 mother 30. One name Monti and other is Monte (but I think the registrar just makes a mistake with the name). Maybe a huge coincidence that the mothers and fathers have the same names??? I don't know. But.........Giuseppa born in March and Calogero born in November same year!!!! That is only 8 months !?! Doesn't make sense.

_________________
Elizabeth
Brognaturo On Line
Brognaturo Civil Records
Mangiardi, Tedeschi/Tedesco, Zangari, Coda, DeFrancesco, Ierulli, Bava, Daniele, Valente


Last edited by BillieDeKid on Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Trascrizione

Calogero Monti
img387.imageshack.us/i...190ym0.jpg

L'anno 1898, addì 15 di Novembre a ore a.m. 10 e minuti 40 nella casa Comunale. Avanti di me Vaschiera Giuseppe Segretario Comunale, delegato del Sindaco [...] Ufficiale di Stato Civile del Comune di S. Giuseppe Jato è comparso Monti Salvatore di anni 30 xxx, domiciliato in questo Comune, il quale mi ha dichiarato che alle ore 1,30 a.m. del dì 13 corrente nella casa posta in xxx da Licata Anna di anni 30 sua legittima moglie seco lui convivente è nato un bambino di sesso mascolino che mi si presenta, e a cui dà il nome di Calogero e che io riconosco essere senza vita.
A quanto sopra...

In the yeaar of 1898, on the 15th November in the anti meridian hour 10 and 40 minutes in the Comune. Before me Calogero Monti Comune Secretary, Delegate to the Mayor (...) Official of the State Registry Office of S. Giuseppe Jato Comune appeared Monti Salvatore 30 years of age xxx, domiciled in this comune, who declared to me that at the hour of 1.30am on the 13th of the current month in the post house in xxx of Licata Anna 30 years of age and his legitimate wife living with him was born a child of the male sex who was presented to me, and to who was given the name of Calogero that I recognise to be without life.


_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
BillieDeKid
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

BillieDeKid wrote:
Hi Luca

Yes I agree. I looked at the ages of the parents for Calogero (image Tom posted) father 35 mother 33 in 1898. For Giuseppa (image Tom posted) father 30 mother 30. One name Monti and other is Monte (but I think the registrar just makes a mistake with the name). Maybe a huge coincidence that the mothers and fathers have the same names??? I don't know. But.........Giuseppa born in March and Calogero born in November same year!!!! That is only 8 months !?! Doesn't make sense.

One more thing.......the age of Anna on the manifest is 42 in 1907. So the age of Anna 33 in 1898 for Giuseppa's birth act matches the manifest but not the age of Anna for the birth act Tom posted for Calogero.

_________________
Elizabeth
Brognaturo On Line
Brognaturo Civil Records
Mangiardi, Tedeschi/Tedesco, Zangari, Coda, DeFrancesco, Ierulli, Bava, Daniele, Valente
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

BillieDeKid wrote:
Hi Luca

Yes I agree. I looked at the ages of the parents for Calogero (image Tom posted) father 35 mother 33 in 1898. For Giuseppa (image Tom posted) father 30 mother 30. One name Monti and other is Monte (but I think the registrar just makes a mistake with the name). Maybe a huge coincidence that the mothers and fathers have the same names??? I don't know. But.........Giuseppa born in March and Calogero born in November same year!!!! That is only 8 months !?! Doesn't make sense.

But it could be that the boy who was born dead was not a full term pregnancy!

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
BillieDeKid
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

That could be true Carole but I don't think that the Calogero document Tom posted is correct. I could be all wrong (like that's never happened before) but between the manifest and the correct info for Giuseppa and the draft card..............I don't know, this should be interesting.

_________________
Elizabeth
Brognaturo On Line
Brognaturo Civil Records
Mangiardi, Tedeschi/Tedesco, Zangari, Coda, DeFrancesco, Ierulli, Bava, Daniele, Valente
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about records Reply with quote

I agree with Carole.

Carole wrote:

But it could be that the boy who was born dead was not a full term pregnancy!

The mistakes with the ages happened very frequently. Moreover it's very very strange having two couples with the same name.
It could be different if Tom will found a Calogero born in 1896 and no one in 1899 or 1900.
What we need is the parent's names for Salvatore and Anna. Do you know if exist church records for the same period?

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
  Page 1 of 4All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy