x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  March 28, 2024, 6:16 pm
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 219
Total: 219
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: My Account
06: My Account
07: My Account
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: My Account
15: My Account
16: My Account
17: My Account
18: Stories Archive
19: Community Forums
20: Statistics
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: My Account
29: Community Forums
30: Statistics
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Statistics
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: My Account
49: My Account
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: My Account
54: My Account
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: My Account
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: My Account
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Statistics
72: Community Forums
73: Stories Archive
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: My Account
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: My Account
94: Community Forums
95: Statistics
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Photo Gallery
99: My Account
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: My Account
107: Community Forums
108: My Account
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: My Account
112: Community Forums
113: My Account
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Home
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: My Account
126: My Account
127: My Account
128: My Account
129: My Account
130: My Account
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: My Account
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Statistics
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: My Account
151: Statistics
152: My Account
153: My Account
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: My Account
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: My Account
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: My Account
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: My Account
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Photo Gallery
184: My Account
185: Home
186: Stories Archive
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Statistics
194: My Account
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Statistics
199: My Account
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: My Account
210: My Account
211: My Account
212: My Account
213: Community Forums
214: My Account
215: My Account
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 16:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 09:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 15:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 13:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 13:53:38

State of the Family Record & Other State Records
Last post by debbiemfit in Northern Italy on Jan 02, 2018 at 23:14:28

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Translation for Tom

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Translation for Tom
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page 1, 2  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

Tom asked me to post this with hopes that someone could translate it.


_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange


Last edited by nuccia on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

Anno Domini 1626 die X Martii
Mattias Pacella et Dianora de Paulo
a me D. Petro ... Archip(resbite)ro
Ecclesiae S(anc)tae Mariae S(anc)ti Sal(vato)ri coniun-
cti fuere in matrimonium, et cum
reperti fuere affines in 2° grado
a S(anc)ta Sede Apostolica sub volun-
tatem(!) Pont(...) Max(...) dispensatum
fuit; et quia iam sunt dies ...
... .... ... ... ... ... ...
... Sigismondo Gammeluri Thelesi-
no habita pre(se)ntia et a me su(pradict)o Ar-
chip(resbite)ro in Ecclesia S(anc)ti Sal(vato)ris implo-
ratis eorum consensu coram Ottavio
Pacello, Sal(vato)re Verotto, Belardino
Pallotta, Ottavio Rapuano, Joanne
Paulo Gaetano et aliis coniuncti
fuere ut sup(r)a, denunciationibus etiam
praemissis quar(um) una die p(rim)o d(ict)i men-
sis martii, alia die 7 festum S(anc)ti Thomae
Aquinatis, altera vero die 8 festum Do-
minicae et nullum impedimentum dela-
tum fuit ... in 2° grado affi(nita)tis
in quo dispensatum fuerat ut supra
Shocked Shocked Shocked

Questo è abbastanza complicato!! Prego uno dei nostri traduttori di
"volgere" in inglese la seguente traduzione maccheronica (e incompleta,
visto che diverse parole non sono riuscito a capirle).


L'anno del Signore 1626, il giorno 10 di Marzo.
Mattia Pacelli e Dianora di Paolo furono congiunti in matrimonio da me, Don Pietro ...,
Arciprete della Chiesa di Santa Maria di San Salvatore (Telesino), e siccome furono
trovati affini in 2° grado, furono dispensati dalla Santa Sede
Apostolica
(traduzione NON letterale).
... ... ... (pezzo non comprensibile) ... avuta la presenza di
Vincenzo Gammelluri di Telesino da me Arciprete, nella Chiesa di San
Salvatore, richiesto il loro consenso e alla presenza di Ottavio Pacello,
Salvatore Verotto, Belardino Pallotta, Ottavio Rapuano, Giovanni Paolo
Gaetano ed altri furono uniti (in matrimonio) come sopra (detto), già
premesse le pubblicazioni di cui la prima fu il 1° del detto mese di marzo,
la seconda il giorno 7, festa di San Tommaso d'Aquino, e l'altra l'8, giorno
di Domenica, e nessun impedimento fu rivelato e già furono dispensati dal
2° grado di affinità come sopra (detto).

hide


Last edited by Luca on Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

Quote::

Luca says:
Questo è abbastanza complicato!! Prego uno dei nostri traduttori di
"volgere" in inglese la seguente traduzione maccheronica (e incompleta,
visto che diverse parole non sono riuscito a capirle).



L'anno del Signore 1626, il giorno 10 di Marzo.
Mattia Pacelli e Dianora di Paolo furono congiunti in matrimonio da me, Don Pietro ...,
Arciprete della Chiesa di Santa Maria di San Salvatore (Telesino), e siccome furono
trovati affini in 2° grado, furono dispensati dalla Santa Sede
Apostolica (traduzione NON letterale).
... ... ... (pezzo non comprensibile) ... avuta la presenza di
Vincenzo Gammelluri di Telesino da me Arciprete, nella Chiesa di San
Salvatore, richiesto il loro consenso e alla presenza di Ottavio Pacello,
Salvatore Verotto, Belardino Pallotta, Ottavio Rapuano, Giovanni Paolo
Gaetano ed altri furono uniti (in matrimonio) come sopra (detto), già
premesse le pubblicazioni di cui la prima fu il 1° del detto mese di marzo,
la seconda il giorno 7, festa di San Tommaso d'Aquino, e l'altra l'8, giorno
di Domenica, e nessun impedimento fu rivelato e già furono dispensati dal
2° grado di affinità come sopra (detto).


Translation:
Luca says:
This is quite complicated!! I ask our translators to turn the following made up language into English (it is incomplete seeing that I was unable to understand several words.)



The year of our Lord 1626, the 10th day of March.
Mattia Pacelli and Dianora of Paolo were joined in matrimony by me, Don Pietro...,
Dean of the Church of Santa Maria of San Salvatore (Telesino), and as they found some affinity in 2° level, favours were bestowed by the Holy Apostolic See (translation NOT literal).

... ... ... (incomprehensible piece) ... has the presence of Vincenzo Gammelluri of Telesino by me Dean, of the Church of San Salvatore, requested thier agreement and to the presence of Ottavio Pacello, Salvatore Verotto, Belardino Pallotta, Ottavio Rapuano, Giovanni Paolo
Gaetano and others were joined (in matrimony) as (stated) above, by then after a short preamble the publication of which the first was the 1° of the said month of March, the second on day 7, festival of San Tommaso d'Aquino, and the other the 8th, day of Sunday, and no impediment was found and by then the favours were bestowed from the 2° level of affinity as (said) above.


_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
dragoni
Mem
Mem


Joined: Oct 24, 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

thanks to each of you, i am eternally grateful. i could hardly read the document much less translate. so many abbreviations. btw, this is the marriage record for my 9th great grandfather, the oldest i have been able to locate through church records. i was hoping to find whether it contained information regarding his father, it does not appear to unless ottavia is his father which i won't be able to verify.

tom
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:20 am    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

Reading it again it does seem to be what we know as reading of the banns prior to a wedding. This states that the wedding plans were announced three times, on the 1st March, then then on the 7th day and again on the 8th day (of Sunday), though I'm not sure if that means the 7th and 8th day of the month or the 7th day after the first announcement followed by another 8 days later.

There is a reference >HERE< from Trafford R. Cole regarding marriages and weddings and the following link (below) is a calendar for March 1626 which, I think, might lean towards the 'three week' theory.

>Calendar 1626<

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

Carole wrote:
Luca wrote:

... e siccome furono
trovati affini in 2° grado, furono dispensati dalla Santa Sede
Apostolica ...


... and as they found some affinity in 2° level, favours were bestowed by the Holy Apostolic See ...


Carole, let me reword Luca's sentence (according to my understanding):

...e siccome sono parenti di 2° grado, sono stati autorizzati dalla Santa Sede Apostolica...

which becomes:

...and since they were 2nd cousins they had the clearance from the Holy Apostolic See...

In fact, religious marriages between 2nd cousins are forbidden and you need a special authorization from the Pope (dispensa papale)...


That's great Livio... THANK YOU! kiss

Luca did say it was his 'maccheronata' language and to be honest the text totally confused me - I thought it was in Latin when it seems it was in fact in Maccheronese.....

Good job YOU understood it!

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

Ciao Carole.
Secondo questo calendario perpetuo (dalla pagina che ti appare vai su "index", poi scegli "calendario e Pasqua" sulla sinistra): web.tiscali.it/gabriel...ovanna.htm l'8 Marzo 1626 era una Domenica. Ho avuto modo di usarlo altre volte e sembra essere molto preciso.

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Ciao Carole.
Secondo questo calendario perpetuo (dalla pagina che ti appare vai su "index", poi scegli "calendario e Pasqua" sulla sinistra): web.tiscali.it/gabriel...ovanna.htm l'8 Marzo 1626 era una Domenica. Ho avuto modo di usarlo altre volte e sembra essere molto preciso.

Luca

Carole, you have 2 choices:

1 - Follow, step by step, the detailed instruction given by our Latin guru

2 - Click on this link http://web.tiscali.it/gabrieletalevi/calendario.htm

(the end result is always the same)

BTW I suggest to change Lucas's label from "Translator" to "Lating guru", or "Deciphrator"...

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:


BTW I suggest to change Lucas's label from "Translator" to "Lating guru", or "Deciphrator"...
I like that! Or how about script specialist/Latin guru? Wink I love it! Great job all of you. Your teamwork amazes me.
And Dragoni - congratulations on getting so far back! That's awesome!

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

Carole aka liviomoreno wrote:

That's great Livio... THANK YOU! kiss

Luca did say it was his 'maccheronata' language and to be honest the text totally confused me - I thought it was in Latin when it seems it was in fact in Maccheronese.....

Good job YOU understood it!

This is the first time that I see an answer inserted directly in my own post! That's the power of technology adminpower

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:
Carole aka liviomoreno wrote:

That's great Livio... THANK YOU! kiss

Luca did say it was his 'maccheronata' language and to be honest the text totally confused me - I thought it was in Latin when it seems it was in fact in Maccheronese.....

Good job YOU understood it!

This is the first time that I see an answer inserted directly in my own post! That's the power of technology adminpower

Sorry about that Livio - I should have been using your post as a 'Quote' which I should have cut and pasted to a 'Reply'.

I must have had one of my C.R.A.F.T. moments. Embarassed

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

kiss

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
dragoni
Mem
Mem


Joined: Oct 24, 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

i was able to get so far back because of the help of others in this journey of three years. and the fact that my relatives seemed to like their hometown so much they didn't want to move for all of those generations. all i provided to the effort was my usual stubborness used to track them down. btw, with very little help from the relatives in that for 400 years they generally refused to follow the traditional naming pattern for first sons. they certainly made it more difficult. but then it wouldn't have been such a good challenge.

now it's on to the maternal italian side.

tom
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Cathy
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 2681

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:
Carole aka liviomoreno wrote:

That's great Livio... THANK YOU! kiss

Luca did say it was his 'maccheronata' language and to be honest the text totally confused me - I thought it was in Latin when it seems it was in fact in Maccheronese.....

Good job YOU understood it!

This is the first time that I see an answer inserted directly in my own post! That's the power of technology adminpower
Yikes! Shocked

_________________
Cathy
My Websites
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Translation for Tom Reply with quote

liviomoreno wrote:
Carole, you have 2 choices:

1 - Follow, step by step, the detailed instruction given by our Latin guru

2 - Click on this link http://web.tiscali.it/gabrieletalevi/calendario.htm

(the end result is always the same)

Ma per quale caspita di motivo mi rindirizzava sulla pagina principale? Evil or Very Mad

Grazie Livio
Back to top
View user's profile
  Page 1 of 2All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy