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Cache of letters
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
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nuccia
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Quote::
I'm waiting for the next!

Me too!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

20 March 1936

Page1
img524.imageshack.us/i...ge1ap4.jpg

Page2
img168.imageshack.us/i...ge2nm2.jpg

Page3
img168.imageshack.us/i...ge3xv4.jpg

Page4
img523.imageshack.us/i...ge4zb3.jpg

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Pag. 1
img524.imageshack.us/i...ge1ap4.jpg

Belmonte Mezzagno, 20 Marzo 1936
Mio carissimo fratello
Sono contento di ricevere la tua desiderata lettera, dalla quale apprendo della tua ottima salute e di quella della tua sposa e dei tuoi amati figli.
Altrettanto, fino ad oggi, ti posso dire di me, della mia sposa e dei miei figli, come anche ti posso dire della famiglia di tua cognata Carmela.
Mio amato e caro fratello, mi fai anche saper che il mese scorso tua moglie ebbe una bambina nata morta ma così grande che sembrava di due mesi; caro fratello preghiamo il buon Dio che tua...

Pag. 2
img168.imageshack.us/i...ge2nm2.jpg

... moglie sarà salva e fuori da ogni pericolo, che il buon Dio non vuole avere ancora figli [il senso non è chiaro], che con questo tempo e queste annate difficili, non si può più campare; anche mia moglie era incinta di cinque mesi e poi ha perduto il bambino: meglio così perché i 6 figli che abbiamo sono già tanti, anche troppi, ma ormai sono figli miei e di mia moglie e dobbiamo fare la volontà di Dio, in questi tempi di miseria,[un altro pezzo pochissimo comprensibile] ancora campano figli così grossi, che nata di pochi giorni sembrava già di due mesi, che tua moglie la nutriva molto bene !!!!!!, l'importante caro fratello che si risolva tutto bene, come mia moglie, che in questo periodo lo so io e Maria Santissima in quale condizione mi trovo, che guardo questi miei sei figli e mi tocca piangere xxx e momenti ...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
tjbrn wrote:

27 Nov 1935
Page4
img89.imageshack.us/im...ge4um8.jpg

Amata cognata Giuseppina un saluto e un pensiero da tutta la famiglia, e un saluto da vostra sorella Carmela, il marito e i suoi figli che vi baciano le mani e ci domandano le xxx a vostra suocera. I miei figli mandano un bacio ai loro cugini. Noi tutti salutiamo la tua famiglia, te e mio fratello Ignazio, e vi bacio di cuore il vostro caro cognato Tano Dragotta.
Addio, Addio buone cose e mandateci sempre vostre notizie due volte al mese, cara cognata; mi sono ricordato di questo vostro figlio che si chiama Stefano e ha 19 anni: non potete sapere che piacere abbiamo avuto, sembrava [forse si riferiscono ad una fotografia di Stefano spedita loro dagli Stati Uniti] di vedere mio fratello Ignazio.
Amato fratello sono desideroso di vederti; ti saluto, il tuo amato fratello che sempre ti pensa.

Per Carole
Forse potresti spiegare a Tom l'uso del voi a posto del tu in segno di rispetto che si usa ancora oggi in alcune zone d'Italia (anche se in queste lettere, a causa della non perfetta padronanza della lingua, Tano li alterna senza regola).
Ciao
Luca

Sorry I was late doing this Tom...Had visitors all afternoon and for supper.

Page 4
Beloved sister-in-law Giuseppina a wish and a thought from all the family, and a wave from your sister Carmela, her husband and her children kiss your hands and they are asking the xxx of your mother-in-law. My children send a kiss to their cousins. We all send our wishes to your family, you and my brither Ignazio, and I kiss you from my heart your dear brother-in-law Tano Dragotta.
Goodbye, Goodbye good things and I send you always our news twice each month, dear sister-in-law; I remembered this of your son who is called Stefano and is 19 years old: you cannot know what pleasure we have had, I seem to be (perhaps he is referring to a photo sent from the USA previously) seeing my brother Ignazio.
Dearest brother I really want to see you; I salute you, your loving brother who thinks of you always.

For Carole
Perhaps you can explain to Tom the use of 'voi' as opposed to 'tu' as a sign of respect that is used even today in some areas of Italy (even if in these letters, despite the matter of a non perfect command of the language, Tano alternates from one to the other without any rules)


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Last edited by Carole on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
Pag. 1
img524.imageshack.us/i...ge1ap4.jpg

Belmonte Mezzagno, 20 Marzo 1936
Mio carissimo fratello
Sono contento di ricevere la tua desiderata lettera, dalla quale apprendo della tua ottima salute e di quella della tua sposa e dei tuoi amati figli.
Altrettanto, fino ad oggi, ti posso dire di me, della mia sposa e dei miei figli, come anche ti posso dire della famiglia di tua cognata Carmela.
Mio amato e caro fratello, mi fai anche saper che il mese scorso tua moglie ebbe una bambina nata morta ma così grande che sembrava di due mesi; caro fratello preghiamo il buon Dio che tua...

Pag. 2
img168.imageshack.us/i...ge2nm2.jpg

... moglie sarà salva e fuori da ogni pericolo, che il buon Dio non vuole avere ancora figli [il senso non è chiaro], che con questo tempo e queste annate difficili, non si può più campare; anche mia moglie era incinta di cinque mesi e poi ha perduto il bambino: meglio così perché i 6 figli che abbiamo sono già tanti, anche troppi, ma ormai sono figli miei e di mia moglie e dobbiamo fare la volontà di Dio, in questi tempi di miseria,[un altro pezzo pochissimo comprensibile] ancora campano figli così grossi, che nata di pochi giorni sembrava già di due mesi, che tua moglie la nutriva molto bene !!!!!!, l'importante caro fratello che si risolva tutto bene, come mia moglie, che in questo periodo lo so io e Maria Santissima in quale condizione mi trovo, che guardo questi miei sei figli e mi tocca piangere xxx e momenti ...

Ciao
Luca

From Luca's transcription (Thank You Luca...)
A very sad letter which brought tears to my eyes too!


Page 1

Belmonte Mezzagno, 20 March 1936

My dearest brother,
I am pleased to have received your awaited letter, from which I learn of your excellent health and that of your bride and your beloved children.
The same of which, until today, I can say of myself, my bride and my children, as I can say of the family of your sister-in-law Carmela.
My beloved and dear brother, you tell me also that last month your wife had a baby girl that was born dead but so large that she seemed to be two months of age; dear brother we pray to God that your....


Page 2
...wife is safe and out of any danger, that the good God does not want to have other children (the meaning is not clear), that with this time and in these difficult years, it is impossible to survive; my wife was also five months pregnant and then lost the baby boy: better this way because the 6 children we have are already a lot, even too many, but in the end they are mine and my wife's children and we must do the will of God, in these times of misery, (another piece which is difficult to comprehend) children this large still survive, that only a few days old seem to be two months old already, your wife must have nourished her really well!!!!, it is important dear brother that all has worked out well, like my wife, that during this time I know and the Holy Mary knows in what conditions I find myself, that I look at my six children and it makes me cry xxx at times.....

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Last edited by Carole on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Oh how sad!

These were written during poor and desperate times..thats so clear. He was obviously having a difficult time making ends end and still trying to be strong for his brother and his own family.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

I had not heard about this lost child until very recently; her name was Grace. My mother remembers another child lost, a boy, whose name she did not recall. It is my understanding that there may have been as many as three more failed pregnancies, although I can't confirm that. Another story in the family underscores a certain indomitableness which characterized my grandmother's approach to life. While living in Philadelphia, she opened the door one morning and found a baby in a shoe box on the doorstep. She raised the child as her own. I never met her although my mother and one of my aunts assured me that they had. Even in the most oppressing darkness, one may discover a light which only one's soul can comprehend.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Wow Tom, that is an amazing story. Any idea who this child was?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Luca, is it possible for you to transcribe pages 3 and 4 of the letter of 20 March 1936 please.
I have looked at them and can try to translate, but the dialect in many places does lead me to worry that I will misinterpret something they have said. But translating form your transcription into Italian makes it far easier and safer to provide a true translation...

If you are very busy, then I will certainly try by myself anyway!

Thank you for your ongoing help - it is really appreciated by everyone here.... and not least of all by ME! kiss

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

20 March 1936

Page3
img168.imageshack.us/i...ge3xv4.jpg

[Nota: credo che lo stato d'animo di Tano fosse di tale disperazione che si riflette ampiamente nella scarsa lucidità con la quale scrive: alla consueta "semplicità" della sua scrittura, si aggiunge una confusione di idee che rende praticamente impossibile una sicura interpretazione della prima parte della terza pagina (così come lo è per la seconda pagina). Cerco di restare più vicino possibile all'originale del testo sperando che qualcuno di voi possa dare una lettura attendibile delle sue parole]

... quale strada vorrei fare o di morte o di vita, perciò caro fratello vedi xxx miei quali sono, che un lavoratore di campagna, mi sono ridotto il figlio apolico [questa parola non esiste; quella che si avvicina di più è "apolide" ma non credo che Tano potesse conoscerne il significato!] e ti giuro, quando guardo i miei 6 figli, io e mia moglie e non posso fare niente perché neanche ho il lavoro; ma il mio solo conforto è pensare che ho la salute, ché per il resto mi sembra di essere abbandonato da tutti e non ho più neanche mio padre e mia madre, ma Signore l'unico aiuto che ti chiedo è la salute e il lavoro.
In ultimo non mi resta altro da dirti che, insieme a mia moglie, saluto e bacio te, tua moglie e i tuoi figli; tanti baci mandano i miei figli ai loro cugini, tanti saluti mandiamo a tua suocera e alla sua famiglia, tanti saluti ti manda tua cognata Carmela, bacio le mani a tua suocera e ci domando la grazia [questa abbreviazione ritorna molto spesso nelle lettere di Tano: non so se possa significare "grazia" ma, a senso, sembra poter essere], tanti saluti [Carmela] li manda ai suoi cognati, noi tutti salutiamo i tuoi ...

Page4
img523.imageshack.us/i...ge4zb3.jpg

... cognati, mentre noi tutti abbracciamo forte al cuore te e tua moglie, e tanti baci mandiamo ai vostri amati figli, e i miei figli ti baciano le mani e mandano tanti baci ai loro cugini, a te e a tua moglie tanti forti abbracci e baci, credimi io che sono il tuo affezionatissimo fratello che sempre ti pensa e ti ha più caro della sua stessa vita e ti vuole tanto bene, Dragotta Gaetano.
Addio, addio; scrivimi e mandami buone notizie.
Cognata carissima un pensiero e un saluto particolare, io il vostro caro cognato Tano.
Mentre vi bacio a voi e mio fratello, insieme alla mia sposa, rivolgo un saluto a vostra mamma e vi bacio caramente, credetemi io che sono il vostro caro cognato. Buona sera addio, addio.
[La enorme quantità di saluti, baci, abbracci che Tano rivolge ai suoi familiari oltre-oceano più che ad indicare una povertà di idee nello scrivere una lettera, indica (secondo me) una spaventosa nostalgia che attanaglia il cuore di Tano, il quale rimasto nell'isola senza più parenti e in tristissime condizioni, si attacca "come un'edera" ai suoi più cari ricordi; e quel grido - credetemi, io che sono il vostro affezionatissimo fratello e cognato ... - ne è la più evidente prova]


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Tom - the final two pages from this very sad and moving letter.
It is difficult to comprehend what pain Tano was feeling with his brother and family so very far away!


Page 3
...what road would I like to take, of death or of life, so dear brother see what my xxx (choices?) are, that a worker of the countryside, I am reduced to the be the son of 'apolico' (Note by Luca: this word does not exist; the nearest to it is "apolide" but I don't believe that Tano would have known the meaning of this word) (Note by Carole:Apolide means a stateless or displaced (person). The next nearest is "apolitico" meaning non-political. Like Luca I cannot believe that Tano would have expressed himself in this way. He then continues:) and I swear to you, when I look at my six children, and my wife and I can do nothing because I don't even have work; but my only comfort is thinking that I have my health, and for the rest it seems to me that I am abandoned by everyone and I don't even have my mother and father any more, but Lord the only help that I ask of you is my health and some work.

Finally there is no more to say to you than, together with my wife, I kiss you and salute you, your wife and your children; my children send many kisses to their cousins, many wishes we send to your mother-in-law and her family, many wishes your sister-in-law Carmela sends, I kiss the hands of your mother-in-law and I ask the grazia (Note by Luca: this abbreviation shows up frequently in Tano's letters: I don't know if it means "grazia"but sense that it could be) (Note by Carole: this could, in this context, mean 'a favour' OR 'thanks), best wishes(Carmela) is sending to her in-laws, all of us salute your...

Page 4
.. in-laws, meanwhile we all embrace you to our hearts you and your wife, and we send many kisses to your loved children, and my children kiss your hands and send many kisses to their cousins, to you and your wife many strong embraces and kisses, believe me that I am your very affectionate brother that thinks of you always and who holds you as the dearest of his own life and I love you very much. Dragotto Gaetano. Goodbye, goodbye; write to me and send me good news.

Dearest sister-in-law a wish and thought in particular, I am your dear brother-in-law Tano. While I kiss you and you my brother, together with my bride, I direct a wish to your mother I salute you and kiss you warmly, believe me that I am your dear brother-in-law. Good evening goodbye, goodbye.


(Note from Luca: The enormous amount of wishes, kisses, embraces that Tano directs to his family overseas rather than indicating a lack of ideas in letter writing, indicates (I think) a frightening nostalgia that torments Tano's heart, who is left on the island without any relations and in a very sad condition, he clings like ivy to his dearest memories; and that cry - 'believe me that I am your very affectionate brother...' - is more than evident proof)

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Last edited by Carole on Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

I confess I have wrestled with having Tano's pain revealed; our empathy will not relieve his suffering. I had a sense that these letters would reveal anguish but I'd also hoped for moments of joy. While my grandfather was always tender and loving to me, even as child I could see a longing in his eyes, a sadness that would not abate. That image of him stayed with me; nearly 30 years ago I wrote this poem and dedicated it to my Uncle Joe, who was not as appreciated by his father as he should have been. When the poem was written, I knew nothing of my grandfather's past--images serve as facts, although I am the child greedily gobbling clams on my grandfather's knee. I have no letters from my grandfather so I'll speak for him: there was pain on both sides of that vast ocean, too much to be born alone.

Cataracts of the Mind

For Joe

When he cupped his heavy hand,
thick and gnarled as a cypress root,
and caught you with the callused heel of it,
how could you know that he loved you?
Or why? This old man who sailed
an ocean from his mother’s land
was captive to a language he’d never
understand to shape his hidden thoughts.
He swore instead in broken dreams
and sought his village beyond this foreign sky.
He wandered for decades, lost in the present,
lost to Sicily, depleted by the exodus of youth,
cajoled by hope that life in any form is worth living,
lost as much a boy as man, tended and nearly loved
by the wife arranged to serve him. Now he gathers quiet
from a heated summer day scooping raw clams
into waiting mouths of grandchildren and defying
gravity with the worn blade of his pocketknife.
Whiskey and graying cataracts blur his vision.
Sometimes he weeps alone and coughs into the olive cup
of his hand. His fingernails, a shade of finest umber,
stained with nicotine from years of chain-smoking,
disappear like moles searching through his white hair.
Time has become his memory, a recollection of days
bouncing children on his knee, or fashioning
benches for the garden from wood scraps. He smokes
often, pausing to stare beyond the fig leaves before him to his
boyhood near Palermo. Caught like Epictetus in his master’s hand,
he offered no explanation and endured the pain.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Tom - what a wonderful eulogy to your Uncle Joe...
In my humble opinion the angst that Tano felt was indeed felt by his brother, what a pity you don't have some of his letters to Tano.

For each to be so far away from the other was clearly very painful especially under such circumstances. Poverty, lack of work or any other means to feed those hungry mouths - how can any father cope with such pain? And how did his brother cope when he read of this anguish that he could do nothing to alleviate?

Oh how so many immigrants, and the families they left behind, must have suffered as yours did!

Thankyou for giving me the opportunity of helping you with such personal research. I feel honoured...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Cache of letters Reply with quote

Who knows, maybe one of Tano's family has a little cache of letters in an old box stored away waiting for a curious whim to be fulfilled!

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