x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  March 29, 2024, 2:03 pm
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 279
Total: 279
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: My Account
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: My Account
14: My Account
15: My Account
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: My Account
19: My Account
20: Community Forums
21: My Account
22: Photo Gallery
23: Stories Archive
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Statistics
27: Stories Archive
28: Home
29: My Account
30: Photo Gallery
31: My Account
32: My Account
33: Stories Archive
34: My Account
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: My Account
38: My Account
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Stories Archive
45: Community Forums
46: Stories Archive
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: My Account
50: My Account
51: Stories Archive
52: Community Forums
53: My Account
54: Stories Archive
55: Community Forums
56: My Account
57: Stories Archive
58: My Account
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Stories Archive
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: My Account
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Statistics
76: Community Forums
77: My Account
78: Community Forums
79: My Account
80: Community Forums
81: Stories Archive
82: Stories Archive
83: Stories Archive
84: Community Forums
85: Stories Archive
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: My Account
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: My Account
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: My Account
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Statistics
102: Community Forums
103: Statistics
104: Stories Archive
105: Community Forums
106: My Account
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: My Account
111: My Account
112: Community Forums
113: Stories Archive
114: Community Forums
115: My Account
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: My Account
120: Community Forums
121: My Account
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: My Account
125: My Account
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Stories Archive
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: My Account
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: My Account
136: My Account
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Statistics
141: Stories Archive
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Stories Archive
145: Photo Gallery
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: My Account
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Stories Archive
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: My Account
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: My Account
161: My Account
162: My Account
163: Community Forums
164: My Account
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: My Account
172: My Account
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Stories Archive
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: My Account
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Stories Archive
186: Stories Archive
187: My Account
188: My Account
189: News
190: Community Forums
191: Stories Archive
192: Stories Archive
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Stories Archive
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: My Account
200: Stories Archive
201: Stories Archive
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: My Account
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Stories Archive
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: My Account
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: My Account
217: Stories Archive
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Stories Archive
221: Community Forums
222: My Account
223: My Account
224: My Account
225: Community Forums
226: My Account
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Stories Archive
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: My Account
236: Stories Archive
237: Community Forums
238: My Account
239: Community Forums
240: My Account
241: My Account
242: Community Forums
243: Statistics
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Home
248: Stories Archive
249: My Account
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: My Account
254: Community Forums
255: My Account
256: My Account
257: Stories Archive
258: My Account
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: My Account
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Stories Archive
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: My Account
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Stories Archive
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 16:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 09:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 15:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 13:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 13:53:38

State of the Family Record & Other State Records
Last post by debbiemfit in Northern Italy on Jan 02, 2018 at 23:14:28

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts
For help with translating documents or writing letters.
Go to page 1, 2  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mahart
Mem
Mem


Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Liverpool UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Hi everyone it's been awhile since I last posted here and even longer since I've tried to upload from Imageshack so apologies if it messes up.
Anyway if possible could someone help tranlate these extracts taken from the Molfetta Catasto Onciario.
I would much appreciate it if possible.

Mark

img136.imageshack.us/i...to1tr2.jpg

img136.imageshack.us/i...stowq6.jpg

_________________
Researching Palombella family in Molfetta
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

The 1st pic is too blurry to give you a correct transcription, but let's try...

Mauro Palombella scarparo di anni.........41
Angela ...telli moglie di anni...................35
Faustina figlia di anni.............................15
Giovanni Battista figlio di anni................13
Antonia figlia di anni..............................11(!)
Grazia figlia di anni................................ 9
Anna figlia di anni...................................5 (3?)

Teste che f.(!) uno
Industria.........................................once 1,1

Possiede xxx xxxx di casa alla strada del Trescino
per uso di sua abitazione.
Xxx xxx a S. xxx appresso li beni di Nicolò Gilioli e di altri
stimata una rendita per denari Sei............................ once 20
Una vigna di olive(!) alla Gippicona(!) appresso
li beni di Giuseppe Calista(!) e d'altri xxx xxx
rendita per Carlini 24 .................................................... bai 8
...................................................................................._____
Pesi................................................................................... 28

Annui Carlini 35 per xxx di denari 50 xxx alla contrada delle Morte(!) g. 11,1
xxx xxx xxx


Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
mahart
Mem
Mem


Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Liverpool UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Hi Luca thanks for attempting this one for me, it is much appreciated.
I did not know at the time of posting but it is the second image that is more important for my research, I now know that this my direct ancestor. I do understand that it lists the names of the head, wife and children, and also the head occupation, which at present I can not decipher.
The information that follows I cannot really make head or tails of, I mean I know it speaks of what is owned and its worth eg olives etc but I can't translate enough to understand it's context, if that makes sense.

Many thanks Mark

_________________
Researching Palombella family in Molfetta
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

It seems "Ciccio Paolo Palombella", but Ciccio isn't a true name: it could be a diminutive for Francesco. The word after Palombella makes not apparent sense: it seems to be "impotente", maybe it stands for powerless, unable to work, but i'm not sure.
The wife's name is for me unreadable and the same for the first child (Losaro???).
However Losaro, Antonio and Lucia were students and it was not usual in that period (maybe the family was well-off?).
"Possiede 5 vigne d'olive alle Coppe, appresso i suoi confini stimata xxx vendita per Ducati 15"
It means that he held 5 vigne (a unit of measurement, but i don't know the actual equivalent) of olive trees in the "district" called Coppe, which value was of 15 "Ducati" (a coin used in that period).
"Una casa alla strada di Sant'Andrea col peso di sua abitazione, col peso di molti capitali passivi"
He had a house that was charged of various debts: in fact on the left side you can read " 1768: la casa passata di nuovo in dominio dell'Arciduca(!) Rubini" that means that in the year 1768 he was forced to leave his house to the Arciduca (i'm not sure of this word) Rubini.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
The 1st pic is too blurry to give you a correct transcription, but let's try...

Mauro Palombella scarparo di anni.........41
Angela ...telli moglie di anni...................35
Faustina figlia di anni.............................15
Giovanni Battista figlio di anni................13
Antonia figlia di anni..............................11(!)
Grazia figlia di anni................................ 9
Anna figlia di anni...................................5 (3?)

Teste che f.(!) uno
Industria.........................................once 1,1

Possiede xxx xxxx di casa alla strada del Trescino
per uso di sua abitazione.
Xxx xxx a S. xxx appresso li beni di Nicolò Gilioli e di altri
stimata una rendita per denari Sei............................ once 20
Una vigna di olive(!) alla Gippicona(!) appresso
li beni di Giuseppe Calista(!) e d'altri xxx xxx
rendita per Carlini 24 .................................................... bai 8
...................................................................................._____
Pesi................................................................................... 28

Annui Carlini 35 per xxx di denari 50 xxx alla contrada delle Morte(!) g. 11,1
xxx xxx xxx

Luca


Translation:
Mauro Palombella who carries out his work badly (incompetent) - aged .........41
Angela ...his wife - aged.........................35
Faustina daughter - aged........................15
Giovanni Battista son - aged ................13
Antonia daughter - aged.........................11(!)
Grazia daughter - aged........................... 9
Anna daughter - aged...............................5 (3?)

Testimony (or number - head) who/that f.(!) one
Industry (productivity?)....................ounce 1,1

He owns xxx xxxx of houses of the road of Trescino
to use as his habitation.
Xxx xxx at Saint xxx near to the properties of Nicolò Gilioli and other
esteemed (people) an income of Denari Six ....................... ounce 20
An olive orchard(!) at Gippicona(!) near to the properties of
Giuseppe Calista(!) and of another xxx xxx
income of Carlini 24 .................................................... bai (?) 8
(N:B: Carlini - a gold or silver coin of the Kingdom of Napoli) ...................................................................................._____
Weight................................................................................... 28

Annual Carlini 35 for xxx of denari 50 xxx in the district of Morte (!) g 11..1
xxx xxx xxx



Carole

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
mahart
Mem
Mem


Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Liverpool UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Wow Luca!
You are good.

That is really interesting for me. They where initially Notoro's, Scrivano's, and landowners but by the time you get to me they where seamen and poor but happy.
Many thanks

Ciao
Mark

_________________
Researching Palombella family in Molfetta
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
mahart
Mem
Mem


Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Liverpool UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Hi Carole,
Thankyou so muchi for your translatioir
I would like to point out that this Mauro Palombella is not my direct line so the incompetence is not passed on, well in my opinion but maybe not in my wife's LOL!
Seriously though is that enumerator's comments on how lazy the man is or does it mean he is no longer competent for work?
It is dark and freezing here in Liverpool but you have brought a smile to my face.

Many thanks

_________________
Researching Palombella family in Molfetta
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
MauroMags
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

I'm confused to where the incompetence comes in??? What is the word that is being translated as incompetent.... I only see Scaparo after Mauro Palombello... Wouldn't that just mean he is a shoemaker?

Or are you referring to Ciccio Palombella (second image) who is incompetent?



And i think Nicolò Gilioli is actually Nicolo Filioli. Filioli is a Molfettesi surname
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Well - that was a difficult one to decide... at first sight I thought it was to do with shoemaking, but that seemed not to be the case.
The dictionaries I consulted all gave two definitions:

1 BU (little used) persona incapace, incompetente, che esegue male il proprio lavoro
2 RE (regional) roman., borsaiolo

1. Incapable person, incompetent, who carries out his work badly
2. a Roman word, pickpocket


I assumed that he was the first... but I don't know 'who' decided he was so inclined. Perhaps he was (as we say these days) 'a little slow on the uptake'!

BTW - it's dark and cold (-7°C) Sad here in the Alps too... more snow forecast tonight!

Oh - and say hello to your 'Yellow Sheep' for me!
lol

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

MauroMags wrote:
I'm confused to where the incompetence comes in??? What is the word that is being translated as incompetent.... I only see Scaparo after ... Wouldn't that just mean he is a shoemaker?

Or are you referring to Ciccio Palombella (second image) who is incompetent?



And i think Nicolò Gilioli is actually Nicolo Filioli. Filioli is a Molfettesi surname

No Mauro, sorry, but the word following Mauro Palombello's name is
SCARPARO - not Scaparo...

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

I think that scarparo, at that times, meant shoemaker Wink

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
Carole
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Posts: 1662
Location: Valtellina - Near Lake Como

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Luca wrote:
I think that scarparo, at that times, meant shoemaker Wink

Ciao
Luca

Well thank goodness! I'm pleased about that....

But the word doesn't show in my dictionaries as a shoemaker, but clearly as I showed above.

Just goes to show what a minefield translating can be!

_________________

Researching: EDMED, SAVILL, TYSON, NEWCOMBE, STAPLETON, GUNTER, STAPLES
If you think education is expensive -try ignorance!

>Expats in Italy<
Come and join 'Dork and Friends'! >New Blog<
Back to top
View user's profile
mahart
Mem
Mem


Joined: Oct 01, 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Liverpool UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Hey Guys I think you are all right about those palombella's there is a line later in Molfetta that are shoemakers, so maybe he was incompetent one.
Carole I see you met our Superlambanana (I think that is how you spell it). We have got different coloured ones dotted all over the city as part of the Capitol of Culture year.
And I concede in that your dark and cold probably had more of a bite up their in the Alps but I bet it is also more picturesque in the morning.

Once again many thanks
Ciao
Mark

_________________
Researching Palombella family in Molfetta
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
MauroMags
Explorer
Explorer


Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 259
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Even today in the Molfettese dialect, "U Scarpàr" means a shoemaker.

My mother still uses the term, when she's referring to a shoemaker... That is when you can find one. It seems like its a dying trade here in the states...
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with translation of Catasto Onciario extracts Reply with quote

Quote::
I think that scarparo, at that times, meant shoemaker Wink

Uhmmm..in our dialect it still does. Embarassed

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
  Page 1 of 2All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy