x
Toggle Content Register or Login  -  March 28, 2024, 3:51 pm
Toggle Content User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: LucilleDZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 2016

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 332
Total: 332
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: My Account
02: My Account
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: My Account
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: My Account
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: My Account
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: My Account
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: My Account
35: Community Forums
36: Statistics
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: My Account
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: My Account
51: Photo Gallery
52: My Private Messages
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: My Account
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: My Account
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: My Account
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: My Account
72: My Account
73: My Account
74: My Account
75: My Account
76: My Account
77: My Account
78: Community Forums
79: My Account
80: My Account
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: My Account
87: Community Forums
88: Statistics
89: My Account
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: My Account
93: Community Forums
94: My Account
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Statistics
98: Community Forums
99: My Account
100: My Account
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Statistics
105: My Account
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: My Account
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: My Account
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Statistics
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: My Account
122: My Account
123: My Account
124: Community Forums
125: My Account
126: My Account
127: Community Forums
128: My Account
129: My Account
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: My Account
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: My Account
146: My Account
147: My Account
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: My Account
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: My Account
154: My Account
155: My Account
156: My Account
157: My Account
158: My Account
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: My Account
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: My Account
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: My Account
176: My Account
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: My Account
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: My Account
183: Community Forums
184: My Account
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: My Account
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: My Account
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: My Account
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: My Account
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: My Account
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: My Account
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: My Account
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: My Account
227: My Account
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: My Account
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: My Account
243: My Account
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: My Account
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: My Account
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: My Account
256: My Account
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: My Account
262: Community Forums
263: My Account
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Statistics
267: Statistics
268: Statistics
269: Photo Gallery
270: My Account
271: My Account
272: My Account
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: My Account
283: My Account
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: My Account
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: My Account
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: My Account
303: Community Forums
304: My Account
305: Community Forums
306: My Account
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: My Account
312: My Account
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: My Account
320: My Account
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: My Account
331: Community Forums
332: My Account

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Toggle Content Main Menu
Toggle Content Last Posts
Last 10 Forum Messages

bocca
Last post by tennino in General Discussion Groups on Jan 16, 2021 at 16:56:41

Towns in Frosinone that were part of former Vatican States a
Last post by Italysearcher in Central Italy on Feb 19, 2019 at 09:15:58

Dual Citizenship
Last post by Curci-Ghio in General Discussion Groups on Nov 18, 2018 at 15:30:54

Please Help Translate Letter
Last post by nuccia in Translations on Oct 20, 2018 at 06:18:43

Family in Cittanova
Last post by russojoseph1 in Translations on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:28:20

DNA Testing
Last post by nuccia in General Discussion Groups on Sep 29, 2018 at 10:39:30

Trento -Atto di Nascita - Frazione di Poia, Comune di Comano
Last post by exevans in Northern Italy on Mar 28, 2018 at 00:45:37

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 13:58:50

Translating written postcard
Last post by mekanic in Translations on Jan 18, 2018 at 13:53:38

State of the Family Record & Other State Records
Last post by debbiemfit in Northern Italy on Jan 02, 2018 at 23:14:28

Toggle Content Help Support this Site
Please support GentediMareGenealogy
Help us by supporting the future development of this site, or simply to say thank you.
Toggle Content EStore
Community Forums › All Things Italian › Translations › Can someone read this?

     Forum FAQ   Search   Log in to check your private messages   Login  
Can someone read this?
For help with translating documents or writing letters.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:51 am    Post subject: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Can someone help with translating this? I don't need it word for word, but I can't make out the body of this translation..

mofrad.net/ardore/Nati/1815/079.jpg

Thanks Very Happy

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

It's a birth act concerning an abandoned infant.
Tomorrow i'll provide you with a complete transcription.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Nuccia,

Catarina Bruzzese, age 50, midwife, living in Ardore declared that this same day (Dec. 28, 1815) at 12:00 o'clock there was placed at her residence a male child clothed in artichoke-coloured clothing and without any apparent mark on his body, ? ? ?. After having visited (examined?) him, we recognized him as being a male and that he seemed to be 4 or 5 months old. He was given the name Bruno Giuseppe.

Maybe someone else can figure out the few words that I couldn't.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Thank you Luca and Mary. I have never seen a birth act like this before. I find it interesting..sad, but interesting.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

mary wrote:
Nuccia,

Catarina Bruzzese, age 50, midwife, living in Ardore declared that this same day (Dec. 28, 1815) at 12:00 o'clock there was placed at her residence a male child clothed in artichoke-coloured clothing and without any apparent mark on his body, ? ? ?. After having visited (examined?) him, we recognized him as being a male and that he seemed to be 4 or 5 months old. He was given the name Bruno Giuseppe.

Maybe someone else can figure out the few words that I couldn't.

Mary

Mary,

rather than carciofi I read cenciosi, so I would translate
ragged clothing Wink

Luca, what's your opinion Question

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Numero d'ordine 79.
L'anno 1815, ventotto del mese di dicembre avanti di noi Giuseppe Morando sindaco ed ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Ardore, provincia di Calabria Ultra è comparsa Caterina Brazzese di anni 50 di professione levatrice domiciliata in Ardore, ed ha dichiarato che questo stesso giorno, alle ore 12 è stato esposto nella casa di sua abitazione un fanciullo ravvolto in alcuni pannilini tutti cenciosi, e senza alcun segno apparente sul corpo, tale come ci si presenta e dopo di averlo visitato l'abbiamo riconosciuto che era maschio, e che compariva di avere l'età di 4 in 5 mesi, a cui è stato dato il nome di Bruno Giuseppe.
La presentazione, e dichiarazione è stata fatta alla presenza di Giuseppe Xxx di anni 32 di professione civile, domiciliato in Ardore e di Domenico Morando di anni 30 di professione civile domiciliato in Ardore strada lo stretto(!).
Il presente atto è stato letto tanto al dichiarante che ai testimoni, ed indi firmato da noi.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Luca, ogni volta che leggo una tua trascrizione debbo togliermi il cappello (che non porto)!
Ma esisteva già la parola "pannilini"? Io tendevo a leggere "panni lisi"

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Lascia stare il cappello... che tanto siamo in due a non portarlo!!!
Non so se la parola pannilini esistesse o meno, però se guardi la "s" nelle altre parole sembra ben diversa; io l'ho intesa nel senso di "panni di lino" che al plurale forma questa strana parola "pannilini". Però, come si dice in questi casi, sono giusto i miei 2 cents!

Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Thanks again, Livio and Luca for setting me straight. I tip my imaginary hat to you too. I don't wear one either, except a woollen one in winter when it's -10-20C.

I knew that "artichoke coloured" was probably not right, and I did look up
"cenciosi" in my Italian-English dictionary, but the word wasn't in there.

I have no illusions that my translations are perfect, I leave that to the Italian Italians, but I couldn't resist trying since this is a document from my old hometown (I left when I was 10).

One thing I am sure of, the midwife's name is Bruzzese and the mayor is Marando..

Does anyone have any insight as to how foundlings were given last names? Could Bruno have been given as a surname to the child? Quite a few years ago we knew a man whose last name was Salvatore. When we asked how come he had a first name as a last name he said that he was an orphan, and that's how orphans were named. I don't remember what area in Italy he came from.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
liviomoreno
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Rome (Italy)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Mary, your translation was very accurate. I jumped in just because the "artichoke" colour sounded weird...
I agree with you that the midwife's name is Bruzzese but I have some doubt about the mayor's name.

About the child's name I believe that the Bruno Giuseppe is the first name. The document does not show a surname... All the names are written as first-last, therefore Bruno cannot be the surname.

Usually fundlings were given last names such as Esposito, PregaDio (pray god), LaudaDio (praise god), Diotallevi (god raise you)...

_________________
Livio
La mia genealogia
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Luca
Translator
Translator


Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 695
Location: Terni - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

I think that such a document it's not easy for a non-italian (or for an ex italian Wink )... so your translation was great. I know that Nuccia can understand italian so i thought that she could appreciate a transcription.
About surnames: it's highly probable that the midwife surname was Bruzzese, but it's not impossible that it was Brazzese; the same for the Mayor. Bruno could be either a name or a surname, maybe Nuccia can tell us if this was the surname that remained to the child for the rest of his life or not.

Ciao
Luca
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

The mayor's name IS Marando for certain.. that much I am sure of. But I was also wondering what the last name of the child was. Without an indici, (this year doesn't have one) there is no way to make sure. Maybe he took the name Bruzzese? This has happened on some of the other documents we've seen, hasn't it Mary?

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
mary
Mem
Mem


Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

From the Ardore Birth Acts that I've transcribed, there doesn't seem to be a pattern as to how foundlings and illegitimate children were dealt with.

In one year, the same woman found 2-3 newborns on her doorstep (I wonder if she was designated by the authorities for this job), gave them names and last names, went and registered them, and was given the job of taking them to the orphanage in another town.

I've found that in most cases, if they knew who the mother was, the child was given the mother's last name, but 1823 was different and it disturbs me. I'm hoping that someone tells me that I've misunderstood.

Ardore Nati, 1823, #4, 50, 101. Even though the mothers of these children were known, they were given the last name "Spurio/a", which a check on Google tells me that it means "bastardo" or "illegittimo". Another quick check to see if there are actual people with that surname in that area and I found several. It saddens me to think that these children had to go through life with such a last name and not being able to hide the fact that they were illegitimate.

One happy finding. For a few years I kept coming across the name of a certain midwife, Rosa Maria Campagna. Then, in 1903, I came across her Death Act which stated "genitori ignoti" (unknown parents). I was gratified to know that despite her beginning, she was able to have a profession. She must have been brought up by very supportive adoptive parents.

Nuccia, I can't say I remember a case where they were given the midwife's surname. If a midwife was involved, they knew the mother's surname and gave it to the baby. Sometimes the foundlings were given the name of the little area they were found in. I'll pay more attention to such cases from now on.

Mary
Back to top
View user's profile
BillieDeKid
V.I.P.
V.I.P.


Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

Mary thats very interesting. I have found Spurio's in my town too.

_________________
Elizabeth
Brognaturo On Line
Brognaturo Civil Records
Mangiardi, Tedeschi/Tedesco, Zangari, Coda, DeFrancesco, Ierulli, Bava, Daniele, Valente
Back to top
View user's profile
nuccia
Admin
Admin


Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 4375
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Can someone read this? Reply with quote

I am trying to entering all these names, people and ages into a group database (ok..I should be finished in about 12 years) so I am going to keep a eye out for this child...I am really curious about what happened to him. As for Spurio and the 1923 records, I also noticed the same thing. Lets see what the next few years are like. I will hopefully upload them this week or next.

_________________
nuccia
Italian Surname Database

Calabria Exchange
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
  Page 1 of 1All times are GMT - 4 Hours

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index Translations Printer Friendly Page

  
 
Jump to:  



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Hosted By Site5.com
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of Gente di Mare Genealogy.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the opinions of the poster.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
TCD_ItalianGene © Gente di Mare Genealogy