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#16: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: AetherLocation: Americas, Italy PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:38 pm
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Livio,
Yes! That is what it says! However, it is clear to me that the text was written by a member of the Tajani family, and it is full of incorrect historical data, sometimes by almost 3 centuries, etc. WOW!

The title "ministro di grazia, giustizia e dei culti" ? His was a position as "General Prosecutor in the Court of Appeals, in Palermo". The position that in the United States would be of that of "Attorney General".

"Ministro di grazie, giustizia e dei culti" refers to the functions inherent to an "Appeals Court ". At that time? in Italy, the mafia, the 'briganti' created serious political problems. See "Aspromonte" - still today!

I refer to Indro Montanelli, the notable political historian of this most difficult period.

As a matter of fact the Tajani speech set the turmoil between the parties of "Sinistra" and "Destra" with its serious political consequences.

It is a fact that historical information as related by family members many times resides in the domain of "family stories told by the fireplace"!?

Thank you for your input, but here we agree to disagree!

Thanks again for your phone call to the Hertziana in Rome.

Aether , not Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad but Wink Wink Wink

#17: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: nucciaLocation: Toronto, Ontario, Canada PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:16 pm
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You know, I'm glad that you agreed to disagree..I for one, don't understand much of this but am learning a lot from the discussion. I hope you all can continue with your input and knowledge.

#18: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: lotus45tiyeLocation: New Jersey PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:43 pm
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Hi Carole and James I went to www.cognomiitaliani.or and found my mother's maiden name listed, Terranova, but I cannot read it. Grandfather Giuseppe Terranova was born in Sant' Arsenio. Can you will me what is list under Terranova/Terranouva? thanks

#19: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: CaroleLocation: Valtellina - Near Lake Como PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:39 pm
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lotus45tiye wrote:
Hi Carole and James I went to www.cognomiitaliani.or and found my mother's maiden name listed, Terranova, but I cannot read it. Grandfather Giuseppe Terranova was born in Sant' Arsenio. Can you will me what is list under Terranova/Terranouva? thanks

It says this:
TERRANOVA
TERRANUOVA Terranova, tipicamente siciliano, ha ceppi anche in Calabria e nel napoletano, Terranuova, quasi unico, sembra essere dovuto ad errori di trascrizione, dovrebbe derivare dai vari toponimi come Terranova (SA), Terranova da Sibari (CS), Terranova Sappo Minulio (RC) e molti altri.


Translation:
Terranova, typically sicilian, it has origins also in Calabria and in the territory around Naples, Terranuova, almost unique, seems to be due to mistakes in copying, it should derive from the various place names like Terranova (SA), Terranova da Sibari (CS), Terranova Sappo Minulio (RC) and many others.


Hope that's useful...

#20: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: lotus45tiyeLocation: New Jersey PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:56 pm
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Thank you Carole, you help is appreciated.

#21: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: CaroleLocation: Valtellina - Near Lake Como PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:57 pm
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I feel I must comment here myself as I am confused as to how the document that was posted here regarding the TAIANO, TAIANI and TAJANI surnames with a simple request for translation has turned into a lesson in the history of these families through the 10th to the 15th centuries.

Correct me if I am wrong – and I’m sure someone will if that is the case – but I have always believed that the role of a translator was to produce a faithful copy, in another language, of the item/article requested. The translator should also consider the understanding that the ‘client’ may or may not have of the language, dialect, history, culture and geographical details of any translations requested.

So if I may – in my defence I would like to make the following points :
In my translation where there were words such as “salernitano”, “campano” and “Napoletano”, I chose to use the present day names of Salerno, Campania and Napolitano to make it easier for the ‘client’ (in this case Steven) to understand. I do this normally in any translations I do as I don’t know if dialect or culture is understood and would never presume that that is the case. Therefore I will always try and offer, where possible, the English word/title/place for such words, thus assisting the reader to understand better the translated document.

In a document such as the one under discussion here, the ‘translators brief’ was quite simple – ”please translate this” – questions on the meanings of phrases, historical or geographical facts were not requested and, if any arose, they would normally follow that first translation – and as a translator I would not (even if I knew all the answers – which I don’t) offer to expand on what had been requested of me initially.

When the polite request was made to me “to go over this translation” I must admit that initially I thought I had made some terrible mistakes, but could not imagine where… But what is now presented as a translation of the original document is in fact full of facts that are not in the document I translated and are not – I don’t think – readily available to the average translator.

I am not an historian and I do not speak or read Latin or many Italian dialects. I do, at times, rely on ‘mother tongue’ Italians to transcribe such documents into Italian for me and that way, working as a team we can translate most things successfully for people. If questions come out of such translations – as the ‘begging colours’ question did – then they will follow a natural course of research, and experts may be consulted where possible, and if necessary, to find an answer.

I apologise for this long and seemingly rambling reply, but I feel that in my defence I needed to make these points.

#22: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: AetherLocation: Americas, Italy PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:30 am
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Carole,

What is your rabbit saying? Lets drop it, OK?

Aether Wink

#23: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: stevenspringerLocation: Port Jefferson Station, NY PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:00 am
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thank you very much!! looks like i have the really rare one LOL, the Taiano.... Maria Taiano would be my Great Great Great grandmother, she married Francesco Paolo DiLenge Smile

#24: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: liviomorenoLocation: Rome (Italy) PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:05 am
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Carole wrote:
I feel I must comment here myself as I am confused as to how the document that was posted here regarding the TAIANO, TAIANI and TAJANI surnames with a simple request for translation has turned into a lesson in the history of these families through the 10th to the 15th centuries.

Carole, I am 110% with you! kiss

And I still believe that the position of Ministro di Grazia e Giustizia that Diego Tajani had during 3 Depreti's governments (19 Dec 1878 - 14 Jul 1879; 29 Jun 1885 - 30 May 1886 and 30 May 1886 - 4 Apr 1887) is different from the "General Prosecutor in the Court of Appeals, in Palermo" position that Mr Tajani had during the previous years. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

#25: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: CaroleLocation: Valtellina - Near Lake Como PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:35 am
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Aether wrote:
Carole,

What is your rabbit saying? Lets drop it, OK?

Aether Wink

Oh he's not too talkative at all - as rabbits go Aether... but I'm sure that at this precise moment he's saying "Yeah - OK!"

#26: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: nucciaLocation: Toronto, Ontario, Canada PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:54 am
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Uhhhhmmm..wasn't that rabbit a gift from me to you???? kiss

#27: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: tjbrnLocation: North Carolina PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:49 am
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I was a beneficiary of the Gente team team approach to translating documents. I hold these unselfish contributors with the highest regard and feel that a bond of kinship formed as we, and many visitors who view this site, ventured on this journey together. As different aspects were revealed by the translations, my own curiosity was piqued to delve further into those aspects and what ramifications might ensue. This was a learning process, not a lecture, which, in the proper context, would have been welcome provided the notion that the exchange of ideas was valued. Clearly, there are instances when expertise may offer more expansive or more detailed information; however, the presumption that accumulated data translates as the equivalent of either advanced intelligence or infallible wisdom is false logic. What distinguishes this site, aside from the quality of the work of various contributors, is the genuine atmosphere of collegiality. It would be tragic if this aspect were lost by this eclectic and diverse confederation of cyber-companions.

#28: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: liviomorenoLocation: Rome (Italy) PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:06 pm
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I happened to read again the "TAIANI TAIANO TAJANI" entry in the site http://www.cognomiitaliani.org/
and I need to add some more precise information.

Aether wrote:
...
The integration of the surnames* was proposed by Angelo Tajani.
...
*Translator’s Note: The integration refers to the various dialectal forms of the surname Tajani. Thus, the Salernitano, Napoletano, Campano and Teramo are the various dialects that changed the spelling of the surname Tajani. The spelling of the names does not refer to the geographical location.

The Italian text reads "integrazioni proposte da Angelo Tajani" meaning "Additional information (=rider?) proposed by Angelo Tajani" and has nothing to do with the dialectal forms of the surname.

About 50% of the entries in the site http://www.cognomiitaliani.org/
include a paragraph of "integrazioni proposte da ..."

#29: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: stevenspringerLocation: Port Jefferson Station, NY PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:13 pm
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I emailed Angelo Tajani. He wrote back and told me to email Domenico Taiani for the Taiano records Smile :) Smile :) im now waiting on a reply from Domenico

#30: Re: cognomiitaliani website Author: CaroleLocation: Valtellina - Near Lake Como PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:58 pm
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stevenspringer wrote:
I emailed Angelo Tajani. He wrote back and told me to email Domenico Taiani for the Taiano records Smile :) Smile :) im now waiting on a reply from Domenico

That is wonderful news Steven... I'm so pleased for you. Fingers crossed that he replies and will provide you with the records.




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