When did this happen?

Eleven · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: When did this happen?

Lately, I had been thinking about my husbands grandmothers ship passenger record. For 15 years, I havent been able to locate one for her and her small son, coming into this country.

I somehow feel she came here dec of 1894 or jan of 1895. Both years are listed for her on different censuses. I chose those months because she had a child born in october of 95..so I guessed she came at the end of one year or beginning of the other.

Anyway, I once traced my cousins grandmother, by figuring out when she came..and checking the ships for that day, one by one. I found her.

So..I go to the stephen morse site last night..and figure..maybe I can fine hubbys grandmother this way. Even if I did a few ships a day.

Only, when I got there..and tried this..it is no longer free. It links to ancestry and you have to subscribe.

When I did it for my cousin (almost two years ago), I was able to do it free, from his site.

When did they change that?

nuccia · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

There has always been a charge for pre ellis island arrivals...they were known as New York Passengers Lists and are only available on ancestry! Sad

Perhaps when you looked a few years ago they had the special promo going on where you could search the New York Passenger Lists for free. They did this a few times in 2006.

Anyway, if you want, provide us the name and date and we can see whats available. I have a subscription to ancestry.

Eleven · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

My cousins grandmother wasnt pre ellis. But, I searched by ship..and then name by name. I didnt pay for that on the morse site, it was free. It also didnt redirect to ancestry. I put in the info and got the ship and was able to search right there.

For my husbands grandmother, I dont think 1894-5 is pre ellis. Her husband came here a couple years before her and he went thru ellis.

The reason I am having trouble (perhaps) is because I dont have a proper surname for her. Every document I got for her kids had some other form of it.

Her name is Maria Vitro or vitri or vitra or veltro She arrived 1894 or 1895. She would have been about 21, give or take a year.

She traveled with her son Giuseppe D'Alessandro. He would have been about 2..give or take a year.

I searched for him..even using figlio with Giuseppe. I searched D'alessandro without the apostrophe. I searched Alessandro. I even did seaches using Ma...which is how I have seen Maria abbreviated. When we got the ellis island site..I spent hour upon hour trying to find these two.

They could have come in the PA port...since thats where the husband settled..Pennsylvania.

They were from Paduli, Benevento...but for the time period, the manifest will only say Italy.

If I ever told you the people I have found doing different type searches on ellis, you wouldnt believe me. I found two aunts..that I didnt know existed. A great grandfather and mother that I didnt know were in this country. And I even found a family friend (or relative, not determined yet) without even knowing his name..only that he settled in Beacon, NY and my mom used to visit him.She called him "my fathers cousin". I searched the census two years ago..just looking for any familiar Italian name. I found one. I searched ellis and low and behold..he was the guy. He came from the same town as my grandfather. I just cant figure out why..in all of these years..for the amount of time I spent searching..I cant find my husbands grandmother..even tho I have the kids surname..and at least the first letter of hers.

Anyway..anyone wanting to give it a try..would be appreciated. My last resort was to begin a quest of going page by page of every ship that came in dec or Jan...but, now I cant do that.

Cathy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 10, 2007 Posts: 2681

Eleven wrote:

I cant find my husbands grandmother..even tho I have the kids surname..and at least the first letter of hers.

Just a note here about my personal experience. Several children of women coming here in my family were listed under the mother's surname (maiden name). A few were even listed under both surnames with the mother's name being first so everything was indexed by that name. Have your tried using Steve Morris' site and just searching by the comune name? I found that very helpful, although I still have not found my grandfather's manifest - evidently he swam here! Shocked

Eleven · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

Cathy, I have done so many different searches from before we had access online to these records. I know you are correct, in the crazy ways they list children. I had, happen to me, exactly what you described. I missed my grandfathers sisters record, because they had her with her mothers last name. These two came at the same time. I thought she was some other relative. I accidently found her census (long story on that accident), when I went to find the manifest..and saw it...I have had it for close to 10 years...and didnt know who she was.

Searching by comune wont help because in this time period, they didnt put the town name. If I ever find her, it will only say Italy.

I remember, when I first started genealogy, for a few weeks, I couldnt find my grandfather. We kept going to the NYC public library, every saturday to view records. My hubby used to tease me that he was a stow away...heh...well I found mine....and for 15 years..we cant find his..lol Maybe she was the stow away.

This branch of the family has been a big problem for me. She had a lot of kids..but many records for them, I couldnt get due to a fire where they keep the records. Then whatever I am able to get..has different surnames. Its like the kids couldnt get the name straight on their ss information cards.

Would you believe I tried searches using just the name maria? I also tried just putting V in the last name spot.

My husband has a lot of cousins. We tried asking a few..and got this same different name deal. Even on my mother in laws obit..its wrong. Whomever my sister in law asked for the name, gave one of the variations that I have.

It is sometimes very difficult to find people on the ellis site. Between mistakes made on the manifest itself..and more made when non italians type this stuff out...we have to consider ourselves lucky when we actually find something.

It took me 3 weeks in NYC to find my grandfathers. His card was so badly damaged, that I stared and stared at the date..so that the cracks looked like numbers to me. After taking wild guesses at the date..and going thru different ships for that day..I finally found him. He seldom comes up on the ellis search. I have to play around with it, using different info to bring him up.

Thats one reason why I would never hire anyone to do this. Nobody searches like we do, for our own. We do it with our hearts.

nuccia · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

I looked a bit this morning too (at 2 am) and of course, I can't look for you..too many possibilities, too little info. So many Marias with little ones named Giuseppe that were born about 1892, but it will take so much time to go thru them all-and I don't even know what I am really looking for!

Sorry... Sad

BillieDeKid · V.I.P. Joined: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 1221 Location: Illinois

What was Maria's husbands name? His first name..

Eleven · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

Vincenzo but he came before her. I have his.

Eleven · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

Nuccia, I did one by one searches like that too. If anything looked close, I looked at the manifest to see it both names appeared there. Of course, they never did. I am wondering if I have the misfortune to have a person on one of those manifests that cant be read. I could never figure out why I cant find her, if not for that. Lord knows..I searched extensively enough, especially since we got ellis online.

Off topic a bit...but, does anyone know how the system worked...as to the relatives they were going to. Did they just need to give a name? Did someone contact this relative for varification?

Many years ago, I found that my great grandfather, francesco Di Battista, came to this country. Eventually, his son (my grandfather), daughter and wife and daughter, would follow. Anyway..he claimed he was going to his sister Santa Di Battista. Now..his wifes name is santa too...not that it means anything, because the names there seem to repeat and repeat.

Santa DiBattista would have had to come here before 1900...which is when my Ggrandfather came. I have never been able to find her either and of course, once they get to this country..they are lost, unless you know who they married. I also did those shot in the dark searches for this one...it brought me nada.

Eleven · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

Tonight, I was poking around at one of the sites, that you can put in a surname, and they show you the regions of Italy, that currently have that name.

So, I did Vitra, Vitro, Vitri...not one single hit anywhere in campagna...and only a couple of dots elsewhere.

I then went with Veltra/Veltro. This name shows there...and it shows in Benevento. I am currently doing some ellis searches on these two names. I am sure I must have done at least one of these names before...but..am trying again.

Eleven · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

Ok..I am not getting any hits from ellis...but, when I do it on ancestry...a few come up.

If anyone is subscribed and has the time...can you check.

Maria Veltri, Maria Veltre and Maria Veltro

I cant even see the dates..only the name.

nuccia · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

I will do it for you now...give me a few minutes to log on.

nuccia · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Maria Veltri
Name: Maria Veltri
Arrival Date: 17 Mar 1891
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Marseilles, France and Naples, Italy
Destination: New York
Place of Origin: Italy
Ethnicity/Race-
/Nationality: Italian
Ship Name: Neustria
Search Ship Database: Search the Neustria in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 18
Microfilm Serial: M237
Microfilm Roll: M237_563
List Number: 331
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States

travelling with children, Francesco and Carolina..

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Maria Veltri
Name: Maria Veltri
Arrival Date: 5 Aug 1896
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Neapel
Ethnicity/Race-
/Nationality: Italian
Ship Name: Werra
Search Ship Database: View the Werra in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 13
Microfilm Serial: M237
Microfilm Roll: M237_663
travelling with daughter Rosaria..3 years old.

nuccia · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

The other ones were not even close! I promise to help you keep looking. I am trying to finish up some work right now (I got roped into working this whole weekend) so I will be looking on and off.

Eleven · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: Re: When did this happen?

Thanks so much. Those arent her..or she...lol

I am still playing around on the morse site.

I dont think I am ever gonna find her. I dont think the record is out there. It was probably faded or destroyed.