Please have a look

Emmy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 1000 Location: Scotland

This is the copy of my grandmother's birth act that was sent to me from the commune in Italy, its much clearer than the one I copied from the FHC
If you click on the image to enlarge it then click a second time it makes it even better to read. This is a record of the marriage between Giovanni Battiasta De filippis and Francesca Bastianelli I can make out their names
What I would like to know can anyone read the words above the date 1884 at the bottom of the document.

Thanks Emmy

Carole · Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Please have a look

Emmy, It basically says the usual...

.....declared before me and the said witnesses who state they are unable to write.

Emmy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 1000 Location: Scotland

Thanks Carole but I understood that part its the writing directly above the date 1884 I cant make out
The first word begins with either an L or C then there are 2 initials and the last word ends in O
Many Thanks
Emmy

Cathy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 10, 2007 Posts: 2681

I cannot read it Emmy but in my comune's documents any notations found in the column or under the name are usually a notation regarding death of that person or marriage of that person. Since the year notated is 1883 and he was born in 1861, it is definitely a note about either of those events, although I do not see the words death or spouse. Jim Bianco could probably read it but he is out for next next few weeks. Since their are other names there I assume it it a notation about her marriage. Do you know who she married? This looks promising. Perhaps someone else can read it? Do you know who she married?

Emmy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 1000 Location: Scotland

Hi Cathy I do know that this is definatley a record of her marriage to my grandfather because its the same on my grandfathers birth act its just those three words I cant make out - at first I thought this was something to do with when they left Italy to come to UK but I was wrong with that idea because on my grandfathers brothers birth act his marriage is recorded at the bottom just like this one. just wished they had 'typed' everthing Wink

Thanks just the same Cathy
Emmy

Cathy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 10, 2007 Posts: 2681

Just an FYI Emmy. You will never see immigration information noted on the state civil records - only records that they normally keep like death and marriage. And they only make notations on it when they are notified in an official capacity. For example, if I were to write them to notify them of a death, no notation would be made, but if the city of Chicago sent them a letter to notify them of the death and sent a copy of the death certificate, they would make a note on the birth act.

Emmy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 1000 Location: Scotland

Thanks Cathy
I just wonder if my grandparents hadnt been married when their first sons were born in 1881 and 1883 (although as I've said it states on their last son's birth certificate, who was born in Scotland, that they were married in Sant'Elia in 1879) and they had to get married in 1883 if they were thinking about coming to UK?

Could it be that it was necessary to add this to their birth acts officially because they were leaving Italy and coming to UK?

Could it perhaps be that they didnt have proof of their marriage in 1879 and had to marry again?

At that time would they need to have had that type of information/documents to allow them to travel to UK? (my father was born in London UK in 1887)

Emmy

Emmy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 1000 Location: Scotland

This is a copy of my gandfahter's birth act and the part at the bottom right is about their marriage its a bit clearer than that on my grandmothers birth act but it is identical but I still cant make out a word. I've been looking over other birth acts I have and it seems that two of the words before 1884 could perhaps be the day and month of that year but the first word I cant make out but it looks the same on all the birth acts that I've checked.

This is what I think it says:-
A 5th Maggio 1883 sposa ? dello data sopra Sant'Elia ---? could these letters be abbreviation for Fiumerapido? Sposa Gio. (Giovanni) Battista DeFilippis con Francesca Bastianelli.
----------?26 (month of the year February?) 1884
Then a signature of the person recording the information

On the 5th May 1883 married on this date in Sant'Elia Fiumerapido
Giovanni Battista Defilippis and Francesca Bastianelli
.........?26......?1884

Thanks
Emmy

Cathy · V.I.P. Joined: Jul 10, 2007 Posts: 2681

Emmy wrote:

Thanks Cathy
I just wonder if my grandparents hadnt been married when their first sons were born in 1881 and 1883 (although as I've said it states on their last son's birth certificate, who was born in Scotland, that they were married in Sant'Elia in 1879) and they had to get married in 1883 if they were thinking about coming to UK?

Could it be that it was necessary to add this to their birth acts officially because they were leaving Italy and coming to UK?

Could it perhaps be that they didnt have proof of their marriage in 1879 and had to marry again?

At that time would they need to have had that type of information/documents to allow them to travel to UK? (my father was born in London UK in 1887)

Emmy

Emmy,
I have seen a lot of these notations on birth acts for either marriage or death. I would guess that the majority of them involved events (marriage & death) that occurred out of the comune. In particular the deaths. They often attached little certificates that the other comune in Italy would send (for the deaths). I have even seen these notations included notes on deaths that occurred in New York and Chicago. That is the majority, not all and that is my Calabrian comune not yours. Yours may have done differently. I have seen many of these many local event notations - I think the family had to request it if it was a local event. In your case, it is possible that they requested the notation a few years later so they could have proof of their marriage and birth all on one document, but I am not sure. I am hoping someone who speaks Italian can decipher something. Although I have read many of these birth acts, I am only proficient at extracting the vital information. I will have another look at the document tonight. Right now I have to get ready for work.